ANDREW CLENNELL: Joining me now from Warwick in Queensland is Agriculture Minister and Deputy Nationals Leader, David Littleproud. David Littleproud, thanks for joining us.

DAVID LITTLEPROUD: Yeah, thanks for having me, mate.

ANDREW CLENNELL: We can see it's a slow burn here, can't we? I think in one of those packages before we had only 15 per cent of the pre-pandemic numbers coming from overseas. Is there any sort of estimate by government on how long it will take for this to get back to previous levels, or will the double vax requirement be a bit of a block to people coming?

DAVID LITTLEPROUD: Yeah, I think it just comes down to confidence. I think the world's coming to terms with the next phase of what is Covid-19 and Omicron, which is the latest variant. I think the world's just got to get comfortable with it. I think we'll see that so long as we can show that those risks can be mitigated, you can come to Australia, you can have a good time, you can spend a quid and you get home safely, I think that confidence will grow. And I think that's just human nature – we're cautious beasts. Those that have taken the step today, many have been pulled because of family commitments more so than holidays. And I think what we'll see is once they see and feel and touch it you'll start to see that confidence will grow globally, they'll see that it's a safe place here in Australia to come and I think you'll start to see those numbers start to recover.

ANDREW CLENNELL: Because the big thing it has to address is the worker shortage. And you particularly see that in agriculture. I think you copped some flack over the weekend because it was reported there was a visa program which has a cap on it in terms of farm workers and the like. Can you take us through that? But also talk about the hopes and needs of getting workers in at the moment?

DAVID LITTLEPROUD: Yeah, look, Covid-19 has forced us to structurally change the Australian agricultural workforce. We previously relied on the working holiday maker and the backpacker. There was about 140,000 of those here before Covid-19. We're underneath 30,000 of those. So what we decided to do was structurally shift away from a transient population to a more permanent one. Now, the Pacific Scheme was one in which we found 25,000 men and women. But we've complemented and supplemented that because of the National Party in negotiating the UK free trade agreement, not only did the National Party secure a better UK free trade agreement for market access, but we made it clear to our coalition partners we had to have an agricultural visa with Asian countries. And that was for skilled, semi-skilled and unskilled workers, but gave them a pathway to permanent residency.

So we're structurally adjusting this reliance on backpackers and trying to actually bring in the next generation of migrants to regional and rural Australia, to grow regional Australia and to grow agriculture. And while bureaucrats at Senate estimates have made false statements – and they are false statements – bureaucrats do what they're told by the politicians who are elected. Bureaucrats don't put their name on the ballot paper – we do. When they do they get to tell us what to do. But there is an agreement and, in fact, the ag visa came into place on the 30th of September.

ANDREW CLENNELL: All right, Mr Littleproud, can I just ask you there – can I just ask you there – is it one of your bureaucrats in the agriculture department you're levelling that at?

DAVID LITTLEPROUD: No, it's DFAT.

ANDREW CLENNELL: Is it DFAT? So who is it?

DAVID LITTLEPROUD: No, it was a – well, I wouldn't know him from Adam. But the reality is I think where he's got confused is that obviously the Foreign Minister Marise Payne is in negotiations with a number of countries at the moment, has been since the visa was put in place, to try and get them to sign up. And what's – and what we are trying to give them confidence in is to be able to sign up to a program. And, in fact, one of the countries we're talking with – it will probably be that there'll be a smaller program, a tranche of a thousand, 2000, 3000 of their citizens to come over and to trial it. They want to be able to feel and touch it because of this disgraceful act by the AWU and the cowardice of the Labor Party in not bringing their political masters to heel on this.

They've scare mongered a lot of these embassies and ambassadors. They've gone to them and said don't send your citizens to Australia, they'll be exploited. That's complicated much of the negotiations that Marise Payne is charged with the responsibility of having. And, sadly, what we're seeing is they've scare mongered, and they've also basically trashed our reputation not only as agricultural – in the agriculture sector but our reputation as a country, and the Labor Party hasn't got the guts to stand up. They won't even say whether they're going to support an agricultural visa. They're standing on the sidelines saying nothing, being a small target. They're letting their political masters run away and sabotage Australia's reputation.

And the Labor Party's gone missing in this. They won't give any commitment. Julie Collins, who apparently is the shadow agriculture spokesman, haven't heard boo from her. The closest she's got to a form is 30,000 feet when she flies over them. I mean, they need to be honest. They can't sit and hide anymore. The Labor Party need to put the AWU back in their box, and they need to show that we can actually have a structural change to the agricultural workforce that's good for our nation, that brings in the next generation of migrants back into our country and grow agriculture.

ANDREW CLENNELL: Okay, well, union bashing seems to be the order of the day. Now, you've had your own Covid experience during the week. Can you see any impetus changing the Covid isolation rules out of that?

DAVID LITTLEPROUD: Look, I'll let the medical professionals decide. But, look, the first two days was probably the roughest, but I wouldn't say that it was anything earth shattering. I've had my two jabs plus booster, and whilst some say, you know, I shouldn't have got it at all, I think what it's done has meant that the effects of this has been reduced, which is what the medical evidence as I say.

And, you know, I had some aches and pains and a few chills, and that what is about it. And then effectively I was up and ready and rearing to go. So I think we're going to continue to learn and to live with this a lot better, understand it a lot better. And we may see another variant. And if it's on the trajectory that we've seen it is that every time there's a new variant then it's obviously more transmissible but less severe. And that's actually not a bad trajectory to be on.

ANDREW CLENNELL: All right. Just a couple of quick things, because we're nearly out of time. The first is the Mike Cannon-Brookes' bid for AGL and wanting to close coal sooner. Is the a future for coal-fired power stations in Australia into the 2040s or not, just briefly?

DAVID LITTLEPROUD: Of course there is. There will be, and while these billionaires might want to throw their cheque books around, someone's got to pay the bills. And unfortunately what's going to happen is the mums and dads who are struggling to put tucker on the table every night are the ones that are going to see their electricity bill goes up. So while they might have and be able to afford the ideology, as a federal government we'll make sure that we're protecting the little people – those men and women that are sitting there finding the cost of living real tough. And while Mr Cannon-Brookes can afford to pay high electricity bills, I don't think those families can. And if we do transition, it will be done sensibly and done through a way that will bring everyone with us.

ANDREW CLENNELL: All right. Just finally, speaking of costs of living, you must be hearing about the price of petrol from your constituents up there. Does the government have any plans to address this? Is there anything the government can do about this?

DAVID LITTLEPROUD: Well, we've already got a diesel fuel rebate that supports the mining and particularly the agricultural sector. These are international forces at play and we're obviously working through this not only on fuel; there's other pressure points in cost of living that we're trying to make sure – interest rates, childcare, electricity. And this is exactly the point that Mr Cannon-Brookes doesn't understand – that those people that are struggling out there are finding it hard to put bread and butter on their table. We can't pull these levers while ideologically they sound great practically mean people pay the bill – and a big bill. So we're going to work through these sensibly, not just fuel but everywhere else that we can have an influence on, and the levers we can pull we will pull, and we've proven that.

ANDREW CLENNELL: Mr Littleproud, thanks so much for your time.

DAVID LITTLEPROUD: Any time, mate. Thanks for having me.