Ben Fordham's interview with Scott Morrison
- Written by Ben Fordham
BEN FORDHAM: PM, good morning.
PRIME MINISTER: Good morning, Ben.
FORDHAM: This has been a long time coming. Why now?
PRIME MINISTER: Because the law needs to be fixed. It needs to be changed. We've already expelled, just since the last election, 4,000 people on visas for the crimes that they committed. And the character test provisions - 10,000 since we first came to Government. When I was Immigration Minister, I signed off on quite a number of those. But the judges are handing down sentences which enables people to get around this, and we need an objective test. And the objective test is, if you've committed a crime - stalking, domestic violence, assaulting police officers, breaching AVOs, possessing weapons, concealing child abuse offences, date rape offences - we want to make sure that we can punt them. And the current law, when judges hand down lower sentences, and I know the frustration so many of your listeners would feel about that occurring more generally in the community. But in this area, we can make it an objective test, and there's only one person standing in the way of that, and that's Anthony Albanese. And you cannot have an each way bet on law and order. You can't have an each way bet on justice. If people have committed crimes who've come here as a visa holder, well, they have breached every single obligation they have to the country that gave them a visa and they should go. And I can back that up because we’ve punted 10,000 of them and we want to make sure we can keep doing that and get around the loopholes that others have used.
FORDHAM: Well, it's needed, because at the moment it looks like it's easier to punt a unvaccinated tennis star like Novak Djokovic than getting rid of someone who's involved in domestic abuse or sex offences or even murders.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, well, of course we did, we did reject that visa and he did have to leave, and that received a lot of attention. But, frankly, there are so many more cases where we are doing exactly the same thing, but we are being frustrated by soft decisions in the courts. And that we have, there are judgements that have been handed down, Ben, where we know, because I've even referred to it, that they haven't given a higher sentence because they’ve, they fear that they'll lose their visa. Now, that's not their decision. We have a law in this country which says if you commit a serious offence, then you go. Do not pass go. You're gone, you're out. And that's what I did as an Immigration Minister. It's what Peter Dutton did as an Immigration Minister. It's what, it's certainly what Alex Hawke has been doing as an Immigration Minister. But I tell you what, the Labor Party, you remember what they were like when they were last in government on our borders. This is the same thing. They couldn't bring themselves to do turn backs. And now they can't bring themselves to vote for laws which will enable us to turn back those who commit serious crimes in this country.
FORDHAM: Are you going to get support on this? Because I recall last time, I think it was around October, Labor and the Greens blocked a similar bill, didn't they?
PRIME MINISTER: Yeah, they've been standing against this for 1,200 days. They have been fighting us on this for 1,200 days. You want a clear indication about the risk of Labor at the next election? There's 1,200 reasons right there. They, on these issues - keeping Australians safe, border security, an each way bet on national security. We already know that, you know, those who are, you know, are looking to threaten and coerce Australia, they've got a one way bet on each way Albo. And, you know, it's very important, people need to understand, this election there are very serious issues at stake, and Labor just cannot be trusted on these things. They're soft and weak.
FORDHAM: Still on national security, ASIO has revealed it foiled a plot by a wealthy puppeteer with links to a foreign country to interfere in our election. Now, I don't expect that you're going to be naming any suspects here, but can you tell us whether the interference came from China?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, look, I'm going to be discreet about this, and there are, there are very important reasons to I have to do that as Prime Minister, Ben. I'm sure you'll understand that. But I've seen these reports and I've seen these comments, and I'm very aware of the level of foreign interference that occurs in this country, and that's why our Government has taken a strong stand on it. We are very aware of the way that foreign governments seek to influence Australian politics, even down to the point of seeking to have preselections affected here in this country. And people have seen those reports, I’m not going to comment further on them. But I can tell you what it does, I know who, putting those issues to one side, the countries that are coercing us, I know they don't want to see the Liberal National Government re-elected. I know that much. I know they're not having a one way bet on us. They’re having a one way bet on others.
FORDHAM: You seem to be very keen to paint Anthony Albanese as soft on China. What evidence do you have to back that up?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, it was just the other day when the new Chinese Ambassador was in Australia, he actually said that they should, you know, look at getting rid of ‘some’ of the sanctions they've put on Australian exporters. What does that mean? Some of them he's happy to trade away. Which ones? Wine producers in South Australia? Coal miners up in central Queensland or the Hunter? Lobster producers down in Tasmania? This is the problem with Labor - they always look to appease. Whereas we're in a very uncertain and challenging world and there's no time for weakness. We've stood up, we have totally stood up, and we know that that has drawn flak from from those who would seek to coerce us. But Australians know where I stand on these issues. I've demonstrated that day in, day out, through a pandemic, and we’ll continue to. We are the certainty when it comes to these issues in a very uncertain world, and they've demonstrated weakness.
FORDHAM: You sound very energetic this morning. You're in campaign mode, aren't you?
PRIME MINISTER: Mate, I'm in Prime Minister mode, and that's the mode I'm always in when it comes to standing up for Australians and ensuring our economy’s strong. Our unemployment rate is going below four per cent. 700,000 jobs were saved by JobKeeper as we went through that pandemic.
FORDHAM: Let me, let me ask you about Zali Steggall …
PRIME MINISTER: Sure.
FORDHAM: … who's the Independent MP in Warringah. She, of course, took the seat away from Tony Abbott. She's in trouble at the moment, accused of hiding a political donation, and it was a $100,000 cheque that was handed over from a coal baron John Kinghorn. But the $100,000 donation was hidden and split up eight ways to avoid having to declare it. So should she be paying that money back?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, what we've done, Ben, is a lot of the Independents and a lot of those, you know, ‘Voices of’ movements and all this sort of thing, we've introduced new laws into the Parliament to go impose on them the same transparency and disclosure arrangements on their supporters that political parties have to face up to. And I think what this highlights is there are a lot of people who are happy to throw stones, but they're often in glass houses. And …
FORDHAM: Was it deceitful for Zali Steggall to pretend, or her team, to pretend that these were eight separate donations, when it was one $100,000 cheque?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, I think it's very hard for her to explain this, but it's the same with all of these ‘Voices of’. You know, they say they, “Oh they used to be a Liberal.” No they didn’t, they actually were members of the Labor Party. The ‘Voices of’ movement is the voices of Labor and Anthony Albanese. That's what it is. And if people want to vote for Anthony Albanese and they want to support Anthony Albanese being the Prime Minister of this country, well, they can, they should vote for for the ‘Voices of’ movement because that's who they'll support, and they try to hide these things and they try to conceal them and they're not transparent about it. And I think that's what this is highlighting.
FORDHAM: You appeared on 60 Minutes on Sunday night and Jenny Morrison, your wife, was alongside you. And some people have been critical because they think it was Jenny who was having to step up and answer a lot of the hard questions, including about the Hawaiian holiday. Was this a case of you being asked the same questions and also taking responsibility, but, as we know in TV, they tend to put the answer to air that's most interesting? Or or was this all directed at Jenny?
PRIME MINISTER: No, it wasn't directed at Jenny, and Jenny’s amazing, and she can certainly speak for herself, as everybody knows and I've known for more than 30 or 40 years. But, no, I did an hour long interview as part of that and and then we sat down for a 45 minute interview together, and I've addressed those questions, particularly in relation to when we went away together as a family back in 2018 and offered my apologies on that. They were the same. So, yeah, no, Karl raised all those same issues with me in our own interview. So, you know, you know how television works. I mean, I don't think they were going to run the program for an hour and 45 minutes. If they did, then they would have heard everything I said as well.
FORDHAM: Now, lastly, there was a moment at the end of the story where you showed your talents on the ukulele. Let's just go back there for a moment.
[EXCERPT PLAYS]
FORDHAM: Now, Prime Minister, is this something that we can expect on the election campaign trail?
PRIME MINISTER: It's not the first time I've done that. But, you know, the thing about these things Ben, is it was, they wanted to talk about how we live and what we do. And yeah, that's what I do.
FORDHAM: Whose idea, whose idea was the ukulele?
PRIME MINISTER: Ah, well, we were talking about it and, you know, I decided to show Karl my ukulele talents, which are very limited.
FORDHAM: I’ve got a feeling, I’ve got a feeling, I know Karl Stefanovic has got all sorts of ideas and he's got some duds. And this was the Karl Stefanovic idea, for sure.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, look, to be honest, though, Ben, though, I mean, whether it's that or other things. I mean, people were having a crack at me the other day because I went to a hairdressing salon down-.
FORDHAM: Oh no, we saw that too.
PRIME MINISTER: Yeah, I know. Let me, let me tell, let me be serious for a moment.
FORDHAM: I know, but I’ve got 20 seconds till the news.
PRIME MINISTER: Ok, well let me finish. What occurred there, I go into workplaces all the time. People show me how to weld. People show me how to do other things in factories and manufacturing plants. These were trainees and apprentices who wanted to show me what they're learning on the job. So if people want to sneer at me for that, if they want to sneer at me for other things like playing the ukulele, fine, they’re steering at millions of Australians who just get on with their lives and do a great job.
FORDHAM: I think you should take it along to the election debate with Anthony Albanese. That'll be entertaining. We've got to run, but thank you for jumping on the line.
