Prime Minister's with interview with Sabra Lane from ABC AM
- Written by Sabra Lane
SABRA LANE: Prime Minister, welcome back to AM.
PRIME MINISTER: G'day, Sabra.
LANE: Russia's embassy says Australia's sanctions are xenophobic and it's written on Facebook the country's decision on Ukraine will not be reverted. What's your response?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, I'm used to bullies saying those sorts of things when people stand up to them. They'll spread all sorts of misinformation. We've seen all this before. I completely reject that. I mean, these points were made by the Russian ambassador when they were called in yesterday. And the position Australia is taking, I think is very firm, very clear. And in speaking to Ukraine's Prime Minister last night, it's greatly appreciated by a country that is being threatened by an autocratic bully on its own borders.
LANE: The Russian ambassador, as you say, was called in to see the head of DFAT yesterday. Was he told to pack his bags?
PRIME MINISTER: No, and we are taking this one step at a time. We've announced the sanctions that we are putting in now and this morning I'll be meeting with the Governor-General to confirm those arrangements on the regulatory changes under the Autonomous Sanctions Act. And that will enable us to be targeting specific individuals in relation to the sanctions we've announced. And this will be just the start. And as yet, we haven't seen the full scale invasion take place in Ukraine, and let's hope that that still is averted. But Russia is at peak readiness for such a full scale invasion, that's our advice, and so that means that things are imminent. But they need to be under no doubt that any suggestion there's some pretext for what they're doing, any suggestion that they have some legitimate claim here, that has to be completely denounced. This is unprovoked, unwarranted, uncalled for. This is a sheer act of bullying, threats, intimidation and aggression against a neighbour, and should be called out as such.
LANE: Ukraine's Foreign Minister has told the UN General Assembly the sanctions announced so far by all countries don't go far enough. Putin doesn't appear to be deterred. How much further and faster are allies prepared to go to to stop him.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, I know that ourselves, the United States and the United Kingdom are certainly prepared to go further, and we are. We're still holding other measures to be able to proceed with those. But we are working in lockstep with the US and the UK on sharing the information that we have, particularly about those individuals. I mean, Russia seems quite intent on following through on their threats of violence. I think that's very clear. And what has to be clear from the international community is that there must be costs for that. And the costs for that are, of course, the economic sanctions. But also those who are supporting an authoritarian regime that is doing this, the oligarchs and others who were involved in this, they can't profit through that. And it's important that we act in concert with all other countries to ensure that we can prevent them from being able to sort of move around and conduct their business in a way where they can be completely separate from these events. They are sponsoring these events.
LANE: What would it take for Australia and the US and the UK and other Western allies to actually take military action in Ukraine? What is the red line that has to be crossed?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, look, that's principally a matter for Europe. I mean, it's a long way from Australia, and these issues are principally dealt with in NATO and I think that's where those decisions are ultimately taken. For Australia, it's a matter of supporting our allies and partners in the actions they're taking, not with lethal responses but in the things that we're already doing. And look, I think President Biden has made it very clear about the line that exists along NATO's borders, NATO countries, and I think that's been very clear. But what further action is taken outside of those is really a matter for the Europeans. I mean, our focus is very much on our part of the world and the situation that we face in our part of the world. That's why I've been calling all countries in our part of the world to be denouncing what are these unprovoked threats of violence against Ukraine by Russia. The idea... sorry, go ahead.
LANE: Sorry, I was just going to say, are we seeing here the limits of American power? Will anything, do you think, stop President Putin?
PRIME MINISTER: Look, he clearly looks very intent on taking his opportunity here, and I think it's very clear he's been warming this up for some period of time. I'm pleased to see the actions of the German Government on Nord Stream, that's welcome. And it's very important that Western democracies are very clear, that they don't get caught up in economic relationships that can leave them exposed to coercion, whether it's in Russia or anywhere else. And I think these events, I think, are waking people up to these threats. You know, we're in a very different world to the one we were in a decade ago. And the world is starting to separate between those sort of authoritarian autocratic regimes who want to go and do whatever they want, wherever they want, and western liberal democracies and others who want to support the rule of law. And so Australia's position on all that I think is very, very clear. And those who favour a world order that favours freedom need to stand up for it, as we do.
LANE: How many Australians have asked for assistance to leave Ukraine?
PRIME MINISTER: We have 185 who have registered. We think there's around 1,400 people, Australians in Ukraine, but they are predominantly dual citizens and they have elected to stay. And so we are supporting our consular operations out of Poland and a number of other bordering countries, and we're still providing that support directly within Ukraine as well. One of the issues that I discussed with Ukraine's Prime Minister last night is our preparedness to assist on a humanitarian front. We've already announced that any Ukrainians in Australia who are on visas that expire by the 30th of June, their visas will be extended by a further six months. We've got around 430 visa applications that are on foot. I've asked, I've directed the Minister for Immigration to see that they are resolved promptly, which will provide the opportunity for those on those visas to come to Australia. And we will continue to work with particularly Poland, who are likely to see, in the event of a full scale invasion, displaced persons coming across their border, and providing support to them and the rest of the international community for humanitarian assistance there.
LANE: In the case that that might happen, how many extra refugees is Australia prepared to take if there is a war and mass displacement?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, we're considering that at the moment. But I'd stress, particularly for Ukraine, it isn't just about the humanitarian program. That's why I stress all the other visa classes that are available. There could be many who would apply under our normal visa program. So it's not just about the humanitarian program. But we have acted in these areas in the past, you'll recall the Kosovar arrangements, which was a temporary arrangement and around 4,000 Kosovars came to Australia, and they were here for a period of time, largely down around Albury-Wodonga, and then they returned. And it's ultimately the goal of displaced people that they could return home, and we would have to see what the security situation is and the events are yet to unfold. So I think a lot of that is uncertain. But what is very clear is Australia will play its part.
LANE: One Australian Ukrainian yesterday told us that he was prepared to help fight for Ukraine. Do you endorse that?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, I would have no doubt that should a full scale invasion take place, which is likely, that you will see an ongoing insurgency within Ukraine. We've seen that in the past, and I would expect to see that.
LANE: And you would endorse Australian dual citizens going there to fight?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, look, I'm not going to make a comment speculatively about those issues. I don't think that's helpful. And I'm not aware of the person you’re referring to or the circumstances in which the comments were made. But what I have no doubt about is that there would be an insurgency where a country is invaded by its neighbour in this way.
LANE: Oil prices could rise further for Australians as a result. How might you mitigate that? Are you considering freezing fuel excise?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, I've seen those suggestions from others, but I mean, this is a global issue with fuel prices. And Australia's fuel prices are very high, about $1.80 at the moment. The advice we're getting, particularly out of the International Energy Agency, is that this impact is likely to be short term, it's likely to be temporary. You don't go and completely recalibrate your budget based on fluctuations in oil prices. They've gone up, they've gone down. And so we’d need to assess what the long term impact would be. But certainly the advice at the moment is that this would have a short term impact. And when these suggestions are made, I mean, the movement in oil prices quickly overwhelms any sort of movements of the nature that you've suggested. So people make these points politically, but governments, I think, have to look at these things in a bigger context.
LANE: Prime Minister, thanks for joining AM.
PRIME MINISTER: Thanks very much, Sabra.
