Prime Minister's interview with Karl Stefanovic on The Today Show
- Written by Karl Stefanovic and Scott Morrison
KARL STEFANOVIC: PM, good morning to you. He might be a thug and a bully, but who exactly is going to stand up and bully him back?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, from Australia's point of view, we'll stand with the United States, the United Kingdom and many other countries in doing what we can do, which is to ensure those who profit from this regime, those who support this sort of aggressive, violent, threatening behaviour, that we'll take direct sanctions on them. In a few moments, I'll be meeting with the Governor-General to ensure we get regulations enacted that gives us that authority to go and target those individuals. And so together with the United States and the UK, our AUKUS partners, we are taking the actions that we can take. And it's important that that is done, that there are consequences for this threatening and bullying and aggressive behaviour.
STEFANOVIC: Let's be brutally honest, though. I mean, Europe has hit Russia with the equivalent of a wet lettuce leaf, and the US under Joe Biden has completely lost its swagger.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, look, I'm not going to lecture Europe, they're the ones that are closest to this, I mean, any more than I'd welcome Europe's lecturing Australia about what are in our strategic security interests in this part of the world and the decisions that we make about our security interests. But I mean, they're the ones whose own people, if they were to have troops deployed in Ukraine, that would have been their people, their soldiers. And, you know, they're obviously decisions that they have to take about what's in their best interests. And the United States is a NATO partner joined in that. But from our point of view, we have to send a very clear message that people who treat international borders and international law like this need to be singled out, isolated and called out. And that's what I've been seeking to do. It's not enough just to say, well, we'd like them to step back and we'd like them to not pursue this. We have to denounce specifically that they have no just cause here, Russia. There's no provocation from Ukraine. There's no legitimate interest that Russia is pursuing here. This is straight out threatening of violence to get what they want.
STEFANOVIC: He doesn't care...
PRIME MINISTER: And whether that's there or anywhere else, that's not something Australia or our allies and partners will put up with.
STEFANOVIC: PM, he honestly, and you know, honestly, Vladimir Putin does not care. He will not stop in the face of sanctions. He spotted a weakness and he's driving his military trucks through it. That's what bullies do.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, that is what bullies do. And this has obviously been premeditated and they've been building to this for some time. But again, that's why it's important for the entire international community to be at one, regardless of whether they’re liberal democracies or other regimes. It's not enough to just say, oh, they should sit down and talk. Any suggestion that Russia has some legitimate claim here or some legitimate interest has to be denounced by all the members of the Security Council in the United Nations, all of them. And anyone who's giving Russia aid and support and some cover on this, that's just not okay. That's not a country that's seeking to play a positive role in global politics.
STEFANOVIC: I'll get back to that in a second, but you're 100 per cent right. You've been around the block a few times on this. Look, no one is actually, and you're right to mention the EU, the UN and the United States, but no one is standing shoulder to shoulder with the Ukrainians. No one's sitting on the front line with weapons at the ready. Everyone's too scared.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, look, I don't know if I'll sort of draw an analysis on that other than to say this. I spoke to Ukraine's Prime Minister last night. He was extraordinarily grateful for the position that Australia has taken and reached out to say thank you. He was very appreciative of the work that we're doing to support the Ukrainian community here in Australia. And just to remind everyone, if you're in Australia, a Ukrainian citizen and your visa runs out by the 30th of June, we will extend it by a further six months. We've taken all the visa applications of Ukrainian citizens and put them at the top of the pile, and I've asked for them to be resolved as quickly as possible so that those Ukrainian citizens might come to Australia. So we're working to deal with many of the humanitarian issues that may evolve from this, and we're working with Poland and other countries who will end up probably taking large numbers of displaced persons. We've dealt with this before with Kosovars, who had some temporary safe haven in Australia. So we're working on all those issues. So we're focussing on the things, Karl, that we can focus on, but also taking a very strong stand to send a message to any bully, any thug, anywhere that you can't use threats of violence to coerce other countries into bending to your will.
STEFANOVIC: He's just not going to listen to that, though. He's going to run his own race.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, I agree with that, Karl. But that doesn't mean you don't do it. I mean, it's very important that, I suspect when he takes that action, I'd like to say if, but when he takes that action, there must be these follow on consequences. And particularly for those who are directly involved with this regime. And that's what's different now. The Autonomous Sanctions Bill that our government put in place now enables us not to target a country, but individuals. And we are swapping notes with the Americans and the British to make sure we're targeting the people who should be held to account most and freezing their assets and stopping them from moving their money around. They shouldn't be allowed to go and shop at Harrods or come down here to Australia or go and have a holiday up in North Queensland, do that sort of thing. We are shutting them out. And if the rest of the world does that, then there are genuine consequences for bullies.
STEFANOVIC: The issue is, for the UK and I suspect here as well, that we don't mind the colour of their money. That's been going on for decades in the UK alone. Let's talk about cyber attacks and protections from Russia. You've said all along that we're ready for it, that we've spent enough money on it. But are we still exposed?
PRIME MINISTER: Well cyber attacks are a real threat and they're a present threat. And that is the most likely response from Russia in terms of what we've done. That's why already, for some time now, we've been working privately with many of our big companies, looking at our critical infrastructure to ensure that we can have them as best stepped up in their defences as you can. But in addition to that, now, we're making those warnings very public. And so I'd be encouraging people go to the ASD website and making sure that everything from the smallest business to the largest business, you're doing a good check on your cyber security. Because it's not just what they would seek possibly to do directly, but it's what can be collateral cyber impacts here in Australia from other computer viruses and other things that can be released that just take on a course of their own.
STEFANOVIC: You've said this morning that you'll be cracking down on individuals who support or don't take action against Russia. China has refused to sanction Russia. What action will we be taking on China this morning in terms of sanctions?
PRIME MINISTER: Oh, there's no actions in relation to China. I mean, what we're talking about is those in Russia, those who are part of that regime, those who support that and benefit from that regime in Russia. That's what the law enables us to do.
STEFANOVIC: Isn't not taking any action in terms of deploring Russian behaviour or activity, by China not doing anything isn't that an act of will?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, what I've been seeking to do and I've encouraged others who share my view to articulate it, and that is it's very important for China, and they have moved since I started making these comments, I'm not claiming credit for that, I'm just pleased that they at least have gone further than they had originally done in starting to say, well, no, Russia needs to step back. But what would have to go further, there can be no suggestion that Russia has some legitimate claim here or that both sides have issues and they have to work them out. No. This is unprovoked, unwarranted and as a result, there is no course that Russia could follow other than just to step back. Now, I think the likelihood of that occurring is very, very small. But China as well as all other large countries, all of those on the Security Council and more broadly, I think should be echoing what I've been saying for some time now. They should fully denounce it.
STEFANOVIC: If you're sitting in Taiwan, you're sitting very nervously this morning, right?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, look, I'd caution about drawing too many strong parallels between those situations. They are quite different. But the point I would make is that countries that seek to bully and threaten, and those who don't call out countries that bully and threaten, that is concerning. And silence on those issues is very concerning in our part of the world, not just for Australia, but all countries in our region want to know that those who are a lot bigger than us are going to act in a responsible way and denounce bullying and intimidation.
STEFANOVIC: Let's see if they do that. PM, good to talk to you.
PRIME MINISTER: True, fair point. Thanks, Karl.
