The Prime Minister's interview with David Koch and Natalie Barr, Sunrise
- Written by David Koch
DAVID KOCH: Prime Minister, morning to you.
PRIME MINISTER: Morning, David.
KOCH: Have you spoken to Gladys Berejiklian about those texts since yesterday?
PRIME MINISTER: No, I haven’t had the opportunity to do that, but I appreciate what Gladys said yesterday. In our own dealings with each other, it's always been very positive and I think we've worked very well together, as a Premier and a Prime Minister, to do very great things for for New South Wales in particular, whether it's building the Western Sydney Airport or getting the unemployment rate down, and particularly through the pandemic, we worked very closely. So they’re the results. I can't speak to the other things that are all anonymous and and and as Gladys has said, she doesn't recollect it, and it's certainly not a conversation her and I have ever had.
NATALIE BARR: Yeah. Did that hurt?
PRIME MINISTER: Oh, no one cares if the Prime Minister's feelings hurt, and that, I understand that. It doesn't matter. I mean, of course, people say nasty things about you as Prime Minister all the time. They say nasty things about people in the media. Just, you know, switch on your social media feed and you’ll get yourself quite a giggle. And, you know, I get one all the time. It goes with the job. But the job isn’t about, you know, what people say here and there. The job is about getting unemployment down. And yesterday, unemployment rate, as you'd know, both of you - a three per cent, with a three in front of it. We have not seen that for 50 years. Equally, we haven't seen the number of young people, particularly apprentices in trade training at 220,000, we've never had a figure like that in economic record, and that goes back to 1963.
KOCH: Ok.
PRIME MINISTER: So we are getting people in training, we are getting people in jobs, and an unemployment with a three in front of it, that that's fight, that's worth fighting for, and that's what we have been fighting for.
KOCH: Yep. We will get to that, because the economy has bounce bounced back incredibly well. But yesterday you were very honest. You admitted to mistakes in the vaccine rollout, saying you would have put it under a military operation earlier. But wasn’t the real mistake this time last year, you saying, it's not a race. You know, we can wait for the vaccines, that we didn't order enough from the very start and get it rolling quick enough, because it turned out to be a race.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, as I said very clearly yesterday, we had two big challenges. One was, of course, the blocking of the supplies that we had ordered. And there was also, later on, the big challenges of the AstraZeneca vaccine being limited into whom it could be provided for, because we had invested in ensuring we could manufacture that vaccine in Australia. The challenges we had early on around distribution was overwhelming how things were being managed at Health. And so that's why I brought in General Frewen and it turned around. I mean, I said a year ago that we had hoped, under the original plan that was taken both to my Cabinet and the National Cabinet, that everybody who wanted a vaccine would be able to get one by October. Now, we ended up hitting that mark in the mid to late October, and, so, we turned it around. And that was my point yesterday, David - that where you come across setbacks, you deal with them, you fix them, and you get on with it, and that's how you manage the vaccine. And that's what we've done.
BARR: Yeah, look, and I can appreciate that. But it's like The Hunger Games out here, the last couple of years. I suppose you you then had to get it off other countries. So, other countries have it. And it's like the RAT tests. The Doherty Institute said there are new variants coming. We're going to need these RAT tests, and other countries had lots of them. It feels like we're the last in line every time.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, other countries’ experiences are different to us. And I said this yesterday also. Over in the United Kingdom, they already had RAT tests because they had cases running at 30 and 50,000 a day for a very long time. That was not our experience of Delta. And there was no health advice that had come forward from any officials, no request from any state, that had foreseen the fact that we would have a variant but, for which the vaccine would not prevent transmission. And that's what changed in Australia. What happened in late November, remember, rapid antigen tests were only approved for home use in early November.
KOCH: I know.
PRIME MINISTER: And then we had a meeting five days later of the National Cabinet, National Cabinet. Well, you know, our regulatory authorities make decisions in the best, best health interests of Australians…
KOCH: But in the meantime, in the meantime …
PRIME MINISTER: David, if you wouldn't mind letting me finish. Rapid antigen tests were approved by the TGA. The TGA are the ones responsible for ensuring that they make the best health decisions for Australia. Now, right throughout this pandemic, it's been put to me over and over again, are you following the health advice? Have you listened to the health advice? The health advice was that the TGA would need to approve that, and they didn't approve it - and I'm not criticising them at all because rapid antigen tests are not as good as PCR tests.
KOCH: Well, you should be.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, no, because PCR tests are reliable, and in the Delta phase of the variant, in the Delta phase, PCR tests were the best thing to do.
KOCH: Ok.
PRIME MINISTER: Omicron changed all of that, and no country in the world picked Omicron, no country. So Australia has …
KOCH: Well, well, they were preparing though, because our only factory, producing 100,000 RATs a day, has said, is selling them all to America. The Americans beat us to our own factory and, in fact, the Americans have said to this Brisbane-based company, we’ll fund you to open a factory in America, and the Poms have done the same, and we just ignored it.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, hang on a sec, David, no, no David, no, it wasn't ignored. There was no application from that company at that time that had been approved by the Therapeutic Goods Administration. In fact, one of the companies that people have spoken about actually had their approval pulled by the FDA in the United States. Now, we do have a company that makes rapid antigen tests, they’re out in Western Sydney, and they're doing that right now.
KOCH: [Inaudible] yeah.
PRIME MINISTER: But- and the one in Brisbane is still before the TGA, and they're being asked to give the data to show that their tests are actually reliable. Now, we know in the United States, one of those companies actually had their approval pulled. So I understand the frustration. Believe me, I understand it very well. But Australia is not going to compromise on the health standards and the health advice that protects Australians. And the same was true of the vaccine, because they had to approve the vaccine for use in Australia. And they did it quickly, but they did it right. They didn't take shortcuts. There was no emergency authorisation of the vaccines. They went through all the checks, and they did it for kids too. Because when kids get their jabs, I want parents to know that it's been through every check and every test. That's how you keep Australians safe. We've saved over 40,000 lives in this country through the way we've managed the pandemic. We've got one of the strongest economies and one of the highest vaccination rates in the world. And so when you look at those measures compared to the rest of the world, I know where I'd rather be.
BARR: Ok, let's talk about one of the other things yesterday. You were asked about a very common question that a lot of politicians, particularly prime ministers, get asked - the cost of basics like bread, like petrol, particularly RATs. I think a lot of people would forgive you, a lot of people don't know the exact price of a loaf of bread. But on rapid antigen tests, you're arguing with Anthony Albanese about whether everyday Australians should pay for these, and for you not to know that we're paying out here $15, $20 or more each for one of these. That's why people want them subsidised. Don't you think you should have?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, they are subsidised, first of all …
BARR: For four million people, but not for most people …
PRIME MINISTER: No, no, for 6.7 million people, actually, and to every Australian who goes to a public testing centre when they need that test. But, to be honest, I heard bread and milk in that question yesterday. It was a pretty robust and torrid time at the Press Club yesterday, and I must admit I didn't hear that the question about RAT. That's just the honest truth. Didn't hear it. It's about $15 to $20 bucks and can be, can be less than that. And as the ACCC said yesterday, if it gets above that, then they’re, they'll be coming after those who are price gouging. So, you know, to be honest, I didn't hear that part of the question. I heard bread and milk. And, you know, for the record, I mean, but it depends which bread. I mean, how many different types of bread have people got in their homes these days? How many types of different milk? I mean, not even all the milk actually comes from a cow anymore. I mean, there are so many different things that people have available, but, you know, if it's $2 bucks 60, $3 bucks 40, you know, you go down to my electorate, you'll get petrol for about $1.60 to $1.80, sorry, $1.60, $1.80, that’s what it is.
KOCH: Alright.
PRIME MINISTER: So, you know, it’s one of those old things they do at the Press Club to, you know, make a bit of a headline. But what's important, and this is very important - inflation in Australia and the pressures on inflation in Australia are not what they are in many other advanced economies like the United States, where inflation’s running twice what it is in Australia, and in the United Kingdom around five per cent. And that means there is less pressure on interest rates in this country because of how we're managing the pandemic. We've been ensuring that the Reserve Bank and the Federal Government have been aligning our policy on monetary policy and fiscal policy, and that means the two work together. And that's how you keep pressure on interest rates, which means you're dealing with the cost of living issues. I mean, electricity prices have fallen eight per cent in the last two years, eight per cent.
KOCH: Yep.
PRIME MINISTER: Now, that's because of what we've been doing to get those prices down. So when it comes to cost of living, you know, people, there are all sorts of different prices of bread and milk. But what matters is the Government has policies which puts downward pressure on them, and that's why economic management is so important.
KOCH: Ok. Prime Minister, I know you've got to go. Thanks for spending time with us. Appreciate it.
PRIME MINISTER: No worries, enjoy your almond latte.
KOCH: For the record, for the record, no, I'm rye bread, at $5 a loaf, Burgen. What about you? Are you a sourdough, or a, a multigrain?
PRIME MINISTER: Is that to me?
BARR: Yeah.
KOCH: Yeah.
PRIME MINISTER: I’m just normal white bread, white bread toast. That’s me.
KOCH: Oh you’re, you’re a fibber. Alright, thank you.
BARR: He’s off bread. Thank you very much, Prime Minister.
